More evidence against fish oil - too bad so few understand i

monty1945 · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 351

QUOTE: ...Results Changes in gene expression as observed in
response to dietary oxidized cholesterol were strongly dependent on
the type of fat. In the rats fed coconut oil, the expression of 7
genes (5 up- and 2 down-regulated) was altered by dietary oxidized
cholesterol, while in the rats fed salmon oil, the expression of 50
genes (16 up- and 34 down-regulated) was altered. 29 genes (22 up- and
7 down-regulated) were identified as possible targets for an altered
gene expression by dietary salmon oil as compared to dietary coconut
oil.
Conclusion The present study showed that dietary oxidized
cholesterol transcriptionally affects many genes involved in
xenobiotic metabolism and stress response--an effect that was amplified
by the administration of fish oil as dietary fat. UNQUOTE.

Source: European Journal of Nutrition, Volume 44, Number 4 / June,
2005.

On the internet: http://www.springerlink.com/content/7q1da2uxdfbtqagc/

People now seem intent on destroying the world's oceans as they
destroy their own bodies - it will be interesting to see how long it
takes for some sanity begins to take hold.

I put together a page of other fish oil information the person with an
open mind might want to read:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/fishoilquotesyoushouldread.msnw

Archived from group: sci>med>nutrition

Ron Peterson · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 80

On Feb 18, 5:06 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:

> Source: European Journal of Nutrition, Volume 44, Number 4 / June,
> 2005.

> On the internet: http://www.springerlink.com/content/7q1da2uxdfbtqagc/

The same authors in http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/12/3732
state:
"The observation that at adequate vitamin E levels of 40 or 240 mg -
toc/kg diet, the concentrations of 7ß-OH in plasma and LDL were not
greater in rats fed salmon oil than in those fed coconut oil suggests
that fish oil likely does not influence the formation of oxysterols
when the supply of vitamin E is sufficient."

--
Ron

monty1945 · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 351

The problem, Ron, is that the vitamin E level will not remain
sufficient for long if a person is taking large amounts of fish oil
(in whatever form). Again, you seem to be focused on short-term
results and/or you ignore any evidence you don't like. Will you
answer a simple question, and that is, what is the most likely
comprehensive explanation for good health and ill health? Denham
Harman put forth the free radical hypothesis in the 1950s, and now the
evidence is good enough to explain all the experimental results. You,
on the other hand, have no comprehensive framework, and so you simply
ignore what you don't like - isn't that so? If not, let us being a
long and exhaustive examination of the evidence. We can do that on
this thread if you like. You cite the evidence you feel is most
compelling, and I'll address it in the context of a free radical-based
hypothesis. Then I'll cite my evidence and you address it in the
comprehensive framework you espouse (or vice versa - it doesn't matter
to me who "goes first"). If you are not willing to do this, I'll
assume that you are not interested in science, but something else -
perhaps an agenda you wish to conceal?

Ron Peterson · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 80

On Feb 19, 4:07 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> The problem, Ron, is that the vitamin E level will not remain
> sufficient for long if a person is taking large amounts of fish oil
> (in whatever form).

Most people don't have large intakes of omega 3. But, where is the
data showing vitamin E is exhausted if the intake of omega 3 is high?

> Again, you seem to be focused on short-term
> results and/or you ignore any evidence you don't like.

I don't see it that way. Would you be willing to say that omega 3
fatty acids are good for some people on occasion?

> Will you
> answer a simple question, and that is, what is the most likely
> comprehensive explanation for good health and ill health?

Smoking, hypertension, and obesity are the major causes of ill
health.

> Denham Harman put forth the free radical hypothesis in the 1950s, and now the
> evidence is good enough to explain all the experimental results.

Can life span be increased by reducing free radicals?

> ... If you are not willing to do this, I'll
> assume that you are not interested in science, but something else -
> perhaps an agenda you wish to conceal?

I only am interested in staying healthy and discussing how to do that
with others.

--
Ron

Tom · Joined: 29 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

wrote in message @e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> QUOTE: ...Results Changes in gene expression as observed in
> response to dietary oxidized cholesterol were strongly dependent on
> the type of fat. In the rats fed coconut oil, the expression of 7
> genes (5 up- and 2 down-regulated) was altered by dietary oxidized
> cholesterol, while in the rats fed salmon oil, the expression of 50
> genes (16 up- and 34 down-regulated) was altered. 29 genes (22 up- and
> 7 down-regulated) were identified as possible targets for an altered
> gene expression by dietary salmon oil as compared to dietary coconut
> oil.
> Conclusion The present study showed that dietary oxidized
> cholesterol transcriptionally affects many genes involved in
> xenobiotic metabolism and stress response--an effect that was amplified
> by the administration of fish oil as dietary fat. UNQUOTE.
>

You do not say what exactly the diet was, just the oil.

You can overdose almost on anything and have side affects

but it does not mean that you should not have it in balanced diet.

Mr-Natural-Health · Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 21

I understand enough to know that the author of this thread is a Kook
with an office in the basement of the Science Building of a little
known university of misunderstanding.

This thread has got the Kook known as Monty written all over it.

Taka · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 125

On Feb 20, 2:55 pm, Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Denham Harman put forth the free radical hypothesis in the 1950s, and now the
> > evidence is good enough to explain all the experimental results.
>
> Can life span be increased by reducing free radicals?

The average life span certainly, for the maximal life span (MLSP) you
need to use more stable membrane building blocks which can be anything
except Omega-3 derivatives. The problem is that for increasing MLSP
you have to protect the stem cells which don't need the unstable n-3/6
EFAs in contrast to some highly differentiated and specialized cells
like neurons, muscle and sperm which perhaps require small amounts of
them for optimal functionality.

If you want to die right on schedule (80-90) without suffering from
much chronic inflammatory diseases you can accomplish that with fish
oil if not overdosed but for breaking the barriers and going over 100
you have better getting the Mead acid into your cells ...

Taka

P.S. If someone can show me that fish oil/Omega-3 increases the
telomere length I will accept going back to it.

Ron Peterson · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 80

On Feb 21, 2:43 am, Taka wrote:

> P.S. If someone can show me that fish oil/Omega-3 increases the
> telomere length I will accept going back to it.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/5/1420 shows that vitamin
D3 does that.

--
Ron

Taka · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 125

On Feb 22, 8:53 am, Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2:43 am, Taka wrote:
>
> > P.S. If someone can show me that fish oil/Omega-3 increases the
> > telomere length I will accept going back to it.
>
> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/5/1420shows that vitamin
> D3 does that.

Nice shot. But it translates to me to consume more VitD rich foods
which are safe like butter and do more whole body sunbathing without
burns.

From the Abstract:

"Background: Vitamin D is a potent inhibitor of the ***
proinflammatory *** response and thereby diminishes *** turnover ***
of leukocytes. Leukocyte telomere length (LTL) is a predictor of aging-
related disease and decreases with each cell cycle and increased ***
inflammation ***."

You could argue that EPA/DHA are antiinflammatory but you have to pay
a high price for this effect which is more apoptosis. And apoptosis
means higher TURNOVER of leukocytes and therefore would decrease the
telomere length. The true cause of the proinflammatory response is
called arachidonic acid and you can safely reduce it by diet without
using the "monster to kill a monster" approach ...

Taka

Ron Peterson · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 80

On Feb 22, 10:09 pm, DZ
wrote:
> Ron Peterson wrote:

> >http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/5/1420shows that vitamin
> > D3 does that.

> Correlation of the telomere length with D3 concentrations was
> 0.07 and the age-adjusted correlation was 0.09. The two
> corresponding figures:http://www.ajcn.org/content/vol86/issue5/images/large/znu011074787000...

Thanks, I couldn't get into the text of the document.

> I don't think this is really showing that D3 is related to telomere lengths.

There is too much noise in the data to conclude anything.

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/atvbaha;23/5/842 examines
the relationship between telomere length and CVD. It shows that a
history of hypertension, smoking, higher cholesterol, and a positive
family history of CHD and MI result in shortened telomere lengths.

In addition it does show a correlation of shortened telomere lengths
with MI.

--
Ron

Tim Tyler · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2:43 am, Taka wrote:

>> P.S. If someone can show me that fish oil/Omega-3 increases the
>> telomere length I will accept going back to it.
>
> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/5/1420 shows that vitamin
> D3 does that.

It discusses attenuating the rate of telomere attrition anyway.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply.

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