To Iron or Not to Iron

Mr-Natural-Health · Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 21

If you want to increase the amount of iron that you are getting from
your diet then regularly supplement your diet with vitamin C or
ascorbic acid. And, avoid donating your blood.

If you want to cut back on iron then drink coffee or tea along with
your meals. Not to mention to regularly donating your blood to your
local blood donation service.

Now, I just put ironjustice totally out of business.

Archived from group: sci>med>nutrition

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

On Feb 18, 7:57 am, Mr-Natural-Health email_removed wrote:
If you want to increase the amount of iron that you are getting from
your diet then regularly supplement your diet with vitamin C or
ascorbic acid. <<

You will NOT absorb plant iron / non-heme / non-blood based iron if
you do not need it .. no matter how much vitamin C .. you take.
You absorb more meat iron / heme iron / blood based iron .. when you
eat vitamin C .. and you absorb meat iron at all times .. so you get a
DOUBLE shot of iron when you eat vitamin C and meat together ..

You see how it works .. ?

On Feb 18, 7:57 am, Mr-Natural-Health email_removed wrote:
Now, I just put ironjustice totally out of business. <<

How so .. ?

By not being able to explain even the basics of iron absorption .. ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

"You will NOT absorb plant iron / non-heme / non-blood based iron if
you do not need it .. no matter how much vitamin C .. you take."

And in the past decade the same has been found true for heme iron also.
You have been given the references for the research done showing this.

It has broken the back of the iron is the cause of all disease because
people eat meat notion. This goes with the natural test of the same
notion in india, which has the world's highest rate of diabetes etc. and
low iron and consume little meat.

A dud, dead as a dodo.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: And in the past decade
the same has been found true for heme iron also.
You have been given the references for the research done showing
this. <<

You know as much as .. john ..

On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: This goes with the
natural test of the same
notion in india, which has the world's highest rate of diabetes etc.
and
low iron and consume little meat. <<

Actually the Asians have a very high iron level .. actually the
highest of everyone ..

You somehow seem to keep forgetting that .. or keep .. lying about
that ..

Are you brain injured .. ?

Or are you .. lying .. ?

Which is it ..

You have to be either .. one ..

Soooo .. which is it ..

Both .. ?

I'll settle for .. both .. evidentally ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> "You will NOT absorb plant iron / non-heme / non-blood based iron if
> you do not need it .. no matter how much vitamin C .. you take."
>
> And in the past decade the same has been found true for heme iron also.
> You have been given the references for the research done showing this.
>
> It has broken the back of the iron is the cause of all disease because
> people eat meat notion. This goes with the natural test of the same
> notion in india, which has the world's highest rate of diabetes etc. and
> low iron and consume little meat.
>
> A dud, dead as a dodo.
>
> Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

We did the high iron in asia thing several times before. You trot you
favorite quotation and I respond by showing your version is an edited
version. When the paragraph preceeding your's is added the meaning is
made crystal clear, asians have low iron.

Go ahead, post your's again and I will post the fuller version, plus I
can and have shown using the same study results that indian's rarely
have iron overload because they are habitually low in fact.

I can and have posted othermaterial showing that compared to brits and
other populations indians have low iron by a long shot.

Go ahead, make my day.

It's a dud, dead as a dodo son.

Jesus ate a mediterraneandiet.

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

Go ahead and trot out your information, then I I will post the expanded
version of same showing your version is in its edited form misleading.
The fuller version is crystal clear, asians have low iron.

I can and have posted other material from the same study and others
confirming indians have low iron as a rule.

Go ahead, make my day, one more time.

Its a dud, dead as a dodo son.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 397

On Feb 20, 5:51 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
We did the high iron in asia thing several times before. <<

Asians have the highest levels of iron in the blood than ..
**anyone** ..

On Feb 20, 5:51 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
You trot you favorite quotation and I respond by showing your version
is an edited
version. <<

Edited .. ?
Not so ..

Asians have the highest iron levels ..

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050430222454.htm
Asians, Pacific Islanders Have Highest Blood Iron Levels
ScienceDaily (May 1, 2005) -- BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- UAB and international
scientists studying iron-overload disorders have made the unexpected
discovery that Asians and Pacific Islanders have the highest levels of
iron in their blood of all racial/ethnic groups who were screened.

On Feb 20, 5:51 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
When the paragraph preceeding your's is added the meaning is
made crystal clear, asians have low iron. <<

"Asians, Pacific Islanders Have Highest Blood Iron Levels"

You can't seem to grasp .. it ..

How come ..

On Feb 20, 5:51 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
Go ahead, post your's again and I will post the fuller version, plus
I
can and have shown using the same study results that indian's rarely
have iron overload because they are habitually low in fact.
I can and have posted othermaterial showing that compared to brits
and
other populations indians have low iron by a long shot. <<

"Asians, Pacific Islanders Have Highest Blood Iron Levels"

Write it .. down ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>
> Go ahead, make my day.
>
> It's a dud, dead as a dodo son.
>
> Jesus ate a mediterraneandiet.

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050430222454.htm

The above is a different story about the research results then you used
before. The previous one made it appear that conclusions about asians
was only among those with the genetic mutation for iron overload. Thank
you for this second variation and its clarification.

Sadly it leaves the iron causes all disease because people eat meat
notion in an even worse situation. In the above occurs this about the
mutation that causes the iron overload:

ses organ damage when severe iron deposition occurs due to inadequate
control of iron absorption by the small intestine."

Which says what you don't want to hear, the body controls iron uptake in
the gut. In cases of iron overload there is some disorder that disrupts
gut control.

India today has the world's highest rate of diabetes and other metabolic
disorders, it also is a region with a low or no meat consumption. Until
the last 20 years or so it had a low diabetes rate and the change
occured with no great increase in meat consumption.

The above article also said:

""This may mean
that the Asians and Pacific Islanders have a different genetic
mutation that has not yet been discovered, or that they do not, for
some reason, develop hemochromatosis/iron overload despite their high
blood levels of iron."

What this means is that with little or no iron from meat levels are high
and thus must be high from plant sources. As they suggest, there might
be another mutation that would in this case cause iron overload from
mostly plant based diets alone.

It also means prior to the past 20 years, and still in rural areas,
diabetes etc. was low despite their high iron levels.

All in all whatever the cause of iron levels in the area it is not from
meat. Also where diabetes is low in the past and now in rural areas it
is still in a population with high iron levels. You cann't have it both
ways.

Thus once again the iron from meat causes all disease notion goes down
in flames.

A low meat population with mostly plant foods has high iron and high
diabetes.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

Taka · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 125

ferr...@paris.com wrote:
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050430222454.htm

> India today has the world's highest rate of diabetes and other metabolic
> disorders, it also is a region with a low or no meat consumption. Until
> the last 20 years or so it had a low diabetes rate and the change
> occured with no great increase in meat consumption.

What the change could be? I guess they switched from the traditional
coconut oil and butter to the refined highly unsaturated vegetable
oils and trans-fat laden margarines. Refined PUFAs + sugar =
prescription for disaster. Too bad butter is disappearing from the
store shelves because of the "low wheat harvest". If they were
feeding the cows their natural food which is grass and not the grains
+antibiotics+dead brains mixtures we will all be healthier.

Taka

Real men eat real meat and fat with a dash of complex carbohydrates to
keep their intestinal symbionts going.

Mr-Natural-Health · Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 21

Since apparently ironjustice is unable to comprehend the English
language, I thought that I would give him one more chance to get
it right.

If you want to increase the amount of iron that you are getting from
your diet then regularly supplement your diet with vitamin C or
ascorbic acid. And, avoid donating your blood.

If you want to cut back on iron then drink coffee or tea along with
your meals. Not to mention to regularly donating your blood to your
local blood donation service.

Now, I just put ironjustice totally out of business.

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 397

On Feb 20, 3:28 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: All in all whatever the
cause of iron levels in the area it is not from
meat. <<

Soooo .. we are getting to the .. your agenda .. **meat**..

Aren't we ..

"Asians have the highest iron levels" ..

THAT is THE .. question .. WHY do the Asians have SUCH **high
iron** .. levels ..

NOT .. "they don't have high iron levels" .. IE: "whatever the cause
of iron levels in the area" ..

Understand .. ?

You cannot argue "they don't have high iron" and then admit right
away .. that they .. DO ..IE: "whatever the cause of iron levels in
the area" ..

It is the very basic of the .. Debate101 .. sorta like Bloodbagging
101 ..

Any way .. either of them isn't .. math .. and the question is .. Why
DO Asians have such high iron levels ..

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050430222454.htm
Asians, Pacific Islanders Have Highest Blood Iron Levels
ScienceDaily (May 1, 2005) -- BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- UAB and
international
scientists studying iron-overload disorders have made the unexpected
discovery that Asians and Pacific Islanders have the highest levels
of
iron in their blood of all racial/ethnic groups who were screened.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050430222454.htm
>
> The above is a different story about the research results then you used
> before. The previous one made it appear that conclusions about asians
> was only among those with the genetic mutation for iron overload. Thank
> you for this second variation and its clarification.
>
> Sadly it leaves the iron causes all disease because people eat meat
> notion in an even worse situation. In the above occurs this about the
> mutation that causes the iron overload:
>
> ses organ damage when severe iron deposition occurs due to inadequate
> control of iron absorption by the small intestine."
>
> Which says what you don't want to hear, the body controls iron uptake in
> the gut. In cases of iron overload there is some disorder that disrupts
> gut control.
>
> India today has the world's highest rate of diabetes and other metabolic
> disorders, it also is a region with a low or no meat consumption. Until
> the last 20 years or so it had a low diabetes rate and the change
> occured with no great increase in meat consumption.
>
> The above article also said:
>
> ""This may mean
> that the Asians and Pacific Islanders have a different genetic
> mutation that has not yet been discovered, or that they do not, for
> some reason, develop hemochromatosis/iron overload despite their high
> blood levels of iron."
>
> What this means is that with little or no iron from meat levels are high
> and thus must be high from plant sources. As they suggest, there might
> be another mutation that would in this case cause iron overload from
> mostly plant based diets alone.
>
> It also means prior to the past 20 years, and still in rural areas,
> diabetes etc. was low despite their high iron levels.
>
> All in all whatever the cause of iron levels in the area it is not from
> meat. Also where diabetes is low in the past and now in rural areas it
> is still in a population with high iron levels. You cann't have it both
> ways.
>
> Thus once again the iron from meat causes all disease notion goes down
> in flames.
>
> A low meat population with mostly plant foods has high iron and high
> diabetes.
>
> Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 397

On Feb 21, 4:42 am, Mr-Natural-Health email_removed wrote:
If you want to increase the amount of iron that you are getting from
your diet then regularly
supplement your diet with vitamin C or ascorbic acid. <<

You cannot .. understand .. ?
You **cannot** .. "increase the amount of iron that you are getting
from your diet" ..

You have a certain amount of iron stores .. you will not rise above
those iron stores .. UNLESS you eat .. **meat** ..

Sooo .. since you wish to .. act .. like you know something about iron
absorption you should say .. "if you wish to increase your absorption
of iron to abnormal levels .. you MUST eat .. meat .. " ..

"You CANNOT absorb more of the iron from your plants .. ONLY from
your .. meat" ..

"The body CONTROLS the amount of iron it has inside .. it controls the
amount of iron it absorbs .. but it cannot fully control .. meat
iron / heme iron / blood based iron."

"This abnormal amount of iron is called age-related iron
accumulation."

Sooo .. read that back to yourself a few times ..

Write it .. down ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>
> If you want to cut back on iron then drink coffee or tea along with
> your meals. Not to mention to regularly donating your blood to your
> local blood donation service.
>
> Now, I just put ironjustice totally out of business.

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

Indians eat little or no meat for cultural and poverty reasons. They
have the world's highest rate of diabetes and related metabolic
disorders. Their high or total plant based diet results in high iron
levels.

Thus the iron causes all disease because people eat meat notion fails in
this natural experiment.

The iron notion is a dud, dead as a dodo.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ferrous · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

All in all whatever the cause of iron levels in the area it is not from
meat. <<

Soooo .. we are getting to the .. your agenda .. **meat**..

Aren't we ..

Meat is part of the iron causes all disease because people eat meat.
The notion is your's, asserting the connection between iron and meat and
disease.

In india we have low or no meat and high iron levels from plant based
diets and high rate of disorders. For your notion to be valid all three
variables you identify have to appear as you assert is the case in all
examples of disease. Find only one example and the notion is false.

In india a high plantdeit produces a high iron level in the absense of
meat.

Thus the notion fails, read it and weep.

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

ironjustice · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 397

On Feb 21, 8:01 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
Indians eat little or no meat for cultural and poverty reasons. They
have the world's highest rate of diabetes and related metabolic
disorders. <<

Seems kinda .. contrary to the .. "don't have any iron overload
related diseases" .. that you said .. earlier ..

They actually .. according to .. you .. DO have .. " the world's
highest rate of diabetes and related metabolic
disorders" ..

That would be expected since .. "Asians, Pacific Islanders Have
Highest Blood Iron Levels" ..

You see they are now conducting a study of iron depletion for
diabetes ..

THAT must be the reason they ARE doing a study of iron depletion in
diabetes .. ?

The high rate of iron excess IN .. diabetes .. ?

On Feb 21, 8:01 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
Their high or total plant based diet results in high iron
levels. <<

You are catching on ..

Very surprising .. actually ..

On Feb 21, 8:01 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
Thus the iron causes all disease because people eat meat notion fails
in
this natural experiment. <<

They have thalassemia .. an iron loading disease ..

Didn't I already tell you that .. ?

You must not have written it .. down.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>
> The iron notion is a dud, dead as a dodo.
>
> Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

Here's one for Tom/Doe, the iron guy. What's interesting is how long ago the dangers of unsaturated fatty acids were known, especially PUFAs. This is from 1951, the Rockefeller institute: "Substances possessing the same histochemical properties as the ceroid in cirrhotic livers of rats fed c

Iron pills - what have I bought here? Got some iron pills: 50mg Amino Acid Chelate quoted as being extra strength and 357% of the RDA for UK citizens. In small print on the bottle it says "elemental iron 10mg". So have I bought 50mg iron pills or 10mg? The bottle also recommends 1-2 tablets a

Lactoferrin Iron-Unsaturated? Is the Lactoferrin you can buy in the stores or I'm interested in taking it for allergies per the study below. But, I only want to take it if it's Thanks Lactoferrin decreases pollen aller

Are there practical, safe iron chelators? Searching brought up these iron chelators: Curcumin Green Tea Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6, Phytic acid) Lactobacillus GG L-Histidine Picolinic Acid (eg: as found in Chromium Picolinate) Quercetin Rutin Tanic Acid Luteolin Silybin Lipoic Acid (?) Care to a

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